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Driv3r
Reviews. Were PSM2 & XBW honest? (Part
II)
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Satako
Starting Member

Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts:
26

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:37
pm    Post
subject:

dodgy_dave
wrote:

It's a brilliant driving game,
handlings spot on and the damaging model is the
most realistic I've seen. The missions are
typical Driver missions and are great fun, as is
Take A Ride.

I'll agree with you on the
handling. It's very responsive and the slightly
over-the-top physics engine calls for some very
exciting scenes.

dodgy_dave
wrote:

And yes I'm also willing to bet
that Reflections intended to fix the technical
flaws, but they didn't, and they shouldn't get
in the way of what otherwise would be seen as a
brilliant game, especially seeing as they don't
affect gameplay.

However, here is where we'll
disagree. As has been pointed out, some of these
technical flaws do get in the
way of the general gameplay.

An early
mission where you launch yourself off a ramp to
chase after someone - I replayed that mission
about ten times because unless I were to hit it
perfectly, my car would bounce off the kerb, flip itself
in the air a good few times and land on its back.

We could put that down to my poor driving,
but then later on in the game when we're trying to
impress someone with our driving skills, I
complete the mission, start listening to the
dialogue where I'm filled in on the next part of
the game only to be greeted with a "Mission
Failed" screen and forced to retry. Why? I have no
idea. From what I saw, I passed the test with
flying colours.

Those are two examples
I've encountered - admittedly not huge examples
but annoyances nonetheless. I'm sure other people
here can come up with more but these probably
belong in a separate thread altogether. After all,
this thread isn't about the flaws in the game, but
rather why the reviews failed to point these out,
isn't it?

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bear
Experienced Member

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts:
1159
Location: Ireland

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:41
pm    Post
subject:

Well while
attempting to do one of the chase missions on
attempting to enter a car Tanner stood still first
time failing me the mission,second time same thing
happened with the same car,third time same thing
with a different car.However after I reset the
machine I did the mission first time.I honestly
think if I had not reset the thing though I would
not have passed said mission.

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pieman
Starting Member

Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts:
6

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:01
pm    Post
subject:

Just got a copy
of MCV (video games weekly trade mag) from the
11th of June, which has the driv3r campaign
highlited, it is costing over 30million euros
world wide, which means even at £45 each they have
to shift around 1million copies of the game just
to get the campaign spend back...

Intrestingly under PR:

Quote:

An extensive specialist campaign
has been running for over 18 months. 13 front
covers to date have appeared with the first
review appearing in the July issue of PSM2,
boasting a score of 90%.

Then in the next issue the
have a page on the Driver Brand, which is good
news for their readership (shops etc) who find the
summer months flat. Intrestingly in the whole page
there is only one mention the quality of the game,
which is to say it has scored an average of 9/10
in the specialist press

There seems to be
an intresting quote from Jeremy Wigmore (UK MD of
Atari) When asked if Driv3r can cut it against the
pretenders to the cool crown (GTA, the getaway)

Quote:

Wigmore is bullish: "Of
course it can compete. Edgy, gritty, original,
stylish. All of thes are how Driver is perceived
by consumers - as one of the most innovative
brands around and the epitome of cool.
It is
one of the biggest franchises in this genre and
industry of all time."

No mention of this being
carried on in Driv3r, no mention of the quality of
the game just hype the brand and the masses will
follow....

With all of this money being
spent there was no way they could delay the game
just because it wasn't finished.

I will
watch with intrest MCV for fallout from this
launch.

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OctogenarianPussy
Experienced Member

Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts:
649
Location: Retard Proof Clothing - Available
now

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:10
pm    Post
subject:

Quote:

It is one of the biggest
franchises in this genre and industry of all
time."

How up your own arse can
you be? And surely that statement is
tosh?
_________________
I came here to chew
ass and kick bubblegum. And I'm all out of
ass.

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Pell
Veteran Member

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts:
2689
Location: Modding at The Fun House

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:14
pm    Post
subject:

OctogenarianPussy
wrote:

Quote:

It is one of the biggest
franchises in this genre and industry of all
time."

How up your own arse can
you be? And surely that statement is
tosh?

Have you been living under
a rock these past few years?
In this genre
Driver IS one of the biggest series', along with
GTA. The amount of hype and build up of Driv3r
proves this. Just because the game may be utter
cack doesn't mean that all of a sudden the
franchise disappears!
_________________
And
now... Witness the destructive power of these
armed and fully operational gaming leagues!
The
Ultimate Gaming Quiz: Round
2

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OctogenarianPussy
Experienced Member

Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts:
649
Location: Retard Proof Clothing - Available
now

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:17
pm    Post
subject:

With all due
respect, if you were to ask me for my top twenty
franchises of all time this series wouldn't have
been on the radar. And he does actually say "In
the industry" that implies it goes beyond the
genre. The genre itself consists of Driver and
GTA. And True Crime. And thats it. Right now it's
not much competition.
_________________
I
came here to chew ass and kick bubblegum. And I'm
all out of ass.

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geff
Starting Member

Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts:
7

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:20
pm    Post
subject:

Someone
mentioned earlier about comparing a film review in
Sun magazine to this huge excellent Driv3r topic.

The film used as an example was "The Day
after tomorrow". It was described as having 5
minutes of special effects but the rest was just
garbage..... could this not also be applied to
driv3r. The point is that a film cannot be
reviewed in anyway similar to a game. When you go
to watch a movie your are being fed a story, you
have no control over its outcome and therefore you
either enjoy it or you dont, you can however state
reasons why you may not have enjoyed it i.e poor
character emotions or plain bad acting.

In
the case of a game you are in
control... you have a part in making the story and
making the enjoyment for yourself. In the game
driv3r your enjoyment is not hindered by your own
doing it is hindered by the unarguable flaws and
design bugs... metaphorically similar to if one of
the actors in "The day After Tomorrow" suddenly
stops and says "...er what are my lines again?".
If that had happened no film review could deny it
being there, much like no magazine should have
denied the faults in Driv3r being there.

Iknow this thread is becoming widely
noticed and I really do hope that changes are made
as a result.
_________________
... you said
it, not me!

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Pell
Veteran Member

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts:
2689
Location: Modding at The Fun House

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:23
pm    Post
subject:

geff
wrote:

I know this thread is becoming
widely noticed and I really do hope that
changes are made as a
result.

Such as? It's good that
this thread has a) stayed (pretty much) like a
professional debate and b) has gained a lot of
interest.
A few have mentioned wanting
positive outcomes, but I ask what would that
entail for you to be satisfied with the outcome?
An apology by some people, or what?
_________________
And now...
Witness the destructive power of these armed and
fully operational gaming leagues!
The
Ultimate Gaming Quiz: Round
2

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Eighthours
Moderator

Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts:
6606
Location: Certainty

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:30
pm    Post
subject:

Pell
wrote:

geff
wrote:

I know this thread is becoming
widely noticed and I really do hope that
changes are made as a
result.

Such as? It's good that
this thread has a) stayed (pretty much) like a
professional debate and b) has gained a lot of
interest.
A few have mentioned wanting
positive outcomes, but I ask what would that
entail for you to be satisfied with the outcome?
An apology by some people, or what?

How about some lessons
learned: for the PR people not to try to bully
publications into giving a good score for a
mediocre game, for magazines not to sacrifice
their integrity for the sake of an exclusive, and
for publishers like Atari not to release games
before they are finished, simply because of a
combination of their financial results being due,
and because they've booked advertising space way
too early in advance.

There's 3 good
outcomes for you! An apology would be nice, but I
doubt it's going to
happen.
_________________
Humiliate John Rodney Bennett

Trash CompDeck
Confront Juliet
But do
it quickly....you've only got eight hours to
live

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SillySprout
Moderator

Joined: 06 Aug 2002
Posts:
6329
Location: Xbox Live & PS2 Online:
SillySprout

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:32
pm    Post
subject:

Pell
wrote:

geff
wrote:

I know this thread is becoming
widely noticed and I really do hope that
changes are made as a
result.

Such as? It's good that
this thread has a) stayed (pretty much) like a
professional debate and b) has gained a lot of
interest.
A few have mentioned wanting
positive outcomes, but I ask what would that
entail for you to be satisfied with the outcome?
An apology by some people, or what?

By it simply being here it's
working, surely? After reading this thread, I
think most people will believe that there is
pressure from within the industry placed onto
reviewers to give favourable scores. Now that this
thread has got the gaming public discussing the
situation, there is increased pressure on the
reviewers to give honest scores. Sure,
Atari/*insert dodgy developer name* might be able
to place adverts in magazines / websites, but if
the public doesn't buy them there's not much point
in that is
there?
_________________
HELLO. I am an
outrageous vegetable!
>The Funhouse<
>FunHouse Forum [pink
again!]<

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geff
Starting Member

Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts:
7

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:44
pm    Post
subject:

Pell
wrote:

geff
wrote:

I know this thread is becoming
widely noticed and I really do hope that
changes are made as a
result.

Such as? It's good that
this thread has a) stayed (pretty much) like a
professional debate and b) has gained a lot of
interest.
A few have mentioned wanting
positive outcomes, but I ask what would that
entail for you to be satisfied with the outcome?
An apology by some people, or what?

I am not interested in any
sort of apologies or anyone excepting any sort of
blame. All I would like to see is a change in the
way the "big cheeses" treat the people who
actually make the game and are keeping them in a
job. Perhaps they may open there eyes and give the
developers and designers a chance to create
something that works, rather than drown their work
in corporate bullshit and forced timescales.

The reason why Driv3r has been released in
such a poor state is nothing to do with the
developers lack of ability in creating a game but
because they have been forced to rush or release
early to fit in with Atari! This looks bad for the
poor bastards who made the game, who I am sure
will not be happy with its release quality yet
somehow Atari will still make money from it.

The fact that the reviews were good when
the game is clearly crap is wrong. However, my
point is that the game shouldn't have been
released in this state in the first place. I would
love to see the game recalled for re-development
although it will never happen.

If the big
games companies actually realised that aiming to
create a great game rather than get it out at a
specific time then the games industry would
benefit as a whole. I haven't seen a great game
produced by Atari or EA for years... they have
forgotten the reason why they
started!
_________________
... you said it,
not me!

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bear
Experienced Member

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts:
1159
Location: Ireland

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:10
pm    Post
subject:

Sorry geff but
Reflections have had an awful long time to get
this made.Afterall its 2 years after stuntman was
released and its pretty well known Driv3r was due
out before last christmas.Bottom line both Atari
and Reflections are at fault.

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jamiej
Member

Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts:
288

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:11
pm    Post
subject:

Er-EA are
actually one of the most improved publishers
around....
Also-Trnsformers is not crap is
it?
_________________
Carpe diem-seize the
donut.

Currently playing=
Ps2=Final
Fantasy X-2/prince of persia
Xbox=voodoo
vince/full spectrum warrior
Gamecube=Wind
waker/metroid

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Legends
New Member

Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts:
72

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:19
pm    Post
subject:

On a sidenote
from the magazines discussed, I have always taken
the reviews of 'Official' console magazines with a
pinch of sort.

Compare official mags value
to non-official mags.
What they do have over
other magazines is the gloss, playable demos,
inside info on first-party publishers and their
products.

The other side of this is that
as an official magazine there is always the
editorial line whereby the Xbox magazine has to
make the console sound better then the Playstation
2 and vice-versa.
ie,

The Official 'console'
magazine is a means of promoting the console, so
anything negative about the console is
counterproductive and thus removed.

That is why in Official console mag
reviews, games must get a rating of between
70-100% (unless it is extraordinarily bad.)

Sounds unlikely?
Look at this months xbox
magazine.
Ratings are out of 10 but with a
decimal point, effectively out of 100.
There
are 4 below par games in the issue (by comparing
the ratings of other magazines)
3 of them get
7.0 out of 10
and only one gets even less.

oh, and have you seen the Driver ad on
page 2 of Xbox magazine?

It says "Good,
Bad, Both. Driv3r"

!

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HailToTheKingBaby!
Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts:
2509

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:25
pm    Post
subject:

http://news.spong.com/detail/news.asp?prid=7014

Don't think this has been posted yet but
spong have picked up on this too - they've even
used the brown paper bag stuffed with money
graphic someone posted here (didn't someone on
here make that - did spong get permission? )

Still, someone else furthering
the cause so to speak.. quite a good read
too..
_________________
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Best.. band.. ever..!

Last edited by
HailToTheKingBaby! on Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:34 pm;
edited 2 times in
total

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